Here we go, folks. These guys could really use your help in getting signatures to make the 2010 ballot which would trigger a vote on public land trapping in Montana’s(and the nation’s) public lands. This is a very important cause. Trapping is an antiquated and outdated “pastime” and needs to be gone. Trapping is not the “sportsman” way. We are no longer exploring unbroken, endless country needing these animals to survive as we map new territory. This country has moved on. So should trapping.
You can call for a petition sheet:
Call (406) 274-4791 or (406) 546-9945
View more options for obtaining petition sheets, or donate to the cause:
Montanans for Trap Free Public Lands
Montana sets the example for the rest of the nation with its vast and wild public land system. There’s no question that this trapping ban, when passed will be picked up by other states with large amounts of public land.
These guys need 25,000 signatures from registered Montana voters by June 18th. I aks any blog owners reading this to pass this story along. I also ask that readers here “Digg” this story (lower left icon here at the botton of the post) in order to gain awareness of this issue.
“Trapping is an antiquated and outdated “pastime” and needs to be gone. Trapping is not the “sportsman” way. We are no longer exploring unbroken, endless country needing these animals to survive as we map new territory. This country has moved on. So should trapping.”
Insert “hunting” and/or “fishing” in place of “trapping” and you have the exactly the same arguments that the anti’s are making. Gotta draw the line in the sand somewhere…
I don’t know, Bob. I don’t buy into the thinking that you have to take the good with the bad. I think we have a responsibility to get rid of as much of “the bad” as we can while moving forward.
I also don’t buy into the idea that we have to accept all facets of outdoor activities because we happen to participate in a few that fall under the umbrella. Humans can make objective and rational decisions over how they want to react to their environment and the creatures that inhabit it. Trapping causes unneccesary suffering not only for the intended targets, but for countless animals that “weren’t supposed to get caught”. It’s an outmoded activity becasue it goes against better judgement. We know better. We know it may maim or kill the wrong animal. We know that the animal may fhew it’s own leg off or kill itself in order to get free. We know that slobs often don’t check their lines, and we know that sometimes people who encounter trapped animals torture them. It’s just bad. It has nothing to do with stalking game anf humanely putting it down with a bullet or yanking a fish out of a lake, knocking it out and cleaning it for diner.
Worst of all is that the target animals in trapping are usually the more intelligent mammals in the forest.
“Insert “hunting” and/or “fishing” in place of “trapping” and you have the exactly the same arguments that the anti’s are making. Gotta draw the line in the sand somewhere…”
gotta draw the line somewhere? I say stop it at trapping! An animal caught in a trap to suffer and wait for ultimate blow to the head for its’ fur? Ludicrous. I would never buy fur.
Not jut blows to the head, but also the practice of stepping on the trapped animals chest until your crush it to death. These are the kidns of actions that are only necessary if you need to survive a winter.
We don’t.
I used to do some trapping and hunting. The last thing you want to do is ruin the fur which happens if you shot an animal in the wrong place, or do a bad skinning job. It decreases the amount of money you will get for a pelt. If you trap and don’t check your lines it’s a guarantee that some animal will eat whatever profit you could have made or the animal will have time to get away. I find that those people who trap and don’t check their lines, also tend to take poor car of their dogs and everything else in their life. Needless, to say, when I was a kid I didn’t have a whole lot of emotion about killing an animal. Basically, I feel that most of the animal populations have been hunted down to low numbers so whatever species may exist of a particular animal, should be left alone. Killing an animal for just it’s fur or a body part is wasteful and barbaric. I changed my opinion on death as I have aged and watched a parent, friends, and family members die. I have also put down many animals (pets) that reached their time. I don’t like death, dying or suffering of any kind. Nor do I like people who make others (whether it be human or animal) suffer or die. We have no reason to trap or hunt animals based on the hunter/gatherer mentaliity of the past. If you live in a remote area where hunting for food is a common practice, then use common sense hunting practices, don’t make animals suffer when you kill them, follow hunting laws and use a gun safely, and don’t exceed your hunting quotas. If you kill something–eat it. Don’t kill for just the fur or some body part. Trapping is a brutal, antiquated practice. I don’t hunt anymore and I don’t really like killing animals, but I am not going to damn those who need to hunt or fish and follow the rules.
“gotta draw the line somewhere? I say stop it at trapping! An animal caught in a trap to suffer and wait for ultimate blow to the head for its’ fur? Ludicrous. I would never buy fur.”
And there’s a very vocal population who would say stop it at hunting…and fishing…and pet ownership. It’s a sliding scale, gline. Yours just happens to be a notch over from mine.
If you go to Alaska or someplace where there is a lot of subsistence hunting and trophy hunting, the hunting lobby is quite strong and they would have a totally different opinion. If you talk to a rancher, or farmer, they would have a similiar opinion. If you talk to rural people who live in the woods or the hills, they too believe strongly in hunting, fishing, and some trapping. This is actually a sizable portion of the country’s population and you will only change their opinions over time–if ever.
Basically, I don’t hunt anymore. I think trapping is cruel and don’t know why I did it in the past. I don’t like it when people use dogs to hunt coon, fox, cats, or whatever, but I grew up with those people. Needless to say, when I go to my boyhood home today, I am considered an outsider with my big ideas and I don’t belong there anymore. I can’t change those people, but I can voice my opinion (maybe with some effect) about when our government sidles up with those groups who are anti-animal and anti-environmental preservation. Perhaps someday more people’s attitudes can change at the grassroots level. In the meantime, those of us who want to see these wasteful, biased, practices stopped must relentlessly pursue our legislators, et.al, to make it happen. If we don’t, what kind of a legacy will our children have. Rather than going camping in a real forest, they will pichh their tents in Central Park and pretend they are in a native forest with real animals and clean water.
The argument that if we stop trapping, it will lead to stopping hunting and fishing is hollow. It’s basically a domino theory argument. The other way to look at it is that if we stop the barbaric practices, maybe non-hunters will respect us enough to allow the non-barbaric ones.
Here is that site again. My last post dropped the last “f”
http://ohioline.osu.edu/b929/pdf/b929.pdf
I live further south of you Ronnie near Butterfield, and we see occasional coyotes, but my neighborhood has had no problems.
Maybe the city should have a should have a wildlife officer to assess whether the coyotes have become habituated and whether that can be reversed. They could also educate Have you looked into the cost of trapping? I would be curious to know what that runs.
Sorry Montanans. Posted on wrong board.
bob said: “And there’s a very vocal population who would say stop it at hunting…and fishing…and pet ownership.”
Very vocal? How am I more vocal than you?
stop at hunting? Aren’t you being a bit presumptuous? You seem to more intelligent than that. I am not against hunting game for one’s consumption. Trophy hunting for $ is disgusting. Trapping for $ is disgusting. There you go – a little education.
Mike said: “Worst of all is that the target animals in trapping are usually the more intelligent mammals in the forest.”
and endangered species- like the wolverine.
The thing about predators is they kill other animals. Man is a predator. The only difference between man and other predators is his ability to use his brain rather than his teeth to kill. What those of you consider to be cruel is based on your ability to use your brain. Man is still the most humane in the evolutionary scale, he has learned to kill as quickly as possible to expend energy as little as possible. Whether you believe in evolution or God The fact still remains, we have developed to use intellect rather than speed to catch our prey.Some think man is cruel I think man is where he should be still triing to survive on the planet TOO.
There are ways to kill that may seem less cruel than others because the victim perhaps feels slightly less pain or death happens more quickly. But killing an animal without the need to eat what you kill is a waste of life. The danger of traps and explosive animal land mines is that people (children) are often the victims–not to mention the effects of long-term environmental toxicity.
To think that it would stop at trapping is an other concockted crock of crap. I look at the wolf issue once again and see the perpetuation of “we need more and more wolves to balance the ecosystem” into a land of grass and bugs.Once this right is taken away it will now be a crisis to leave the game for the wolves and let man get food stamps from Uncle sugar.I cant agree with welfare mentality. Near as I can tell fur is a renewable resource that should be used, trapping is a viable means to use that resource.
“stop at hunting? Aren’t you being a bit presumptuous? You seem to more intelligent than that. I am not against hunting game for one’s consumption. Trophy hunting for $ is disgusting. Trapping for $ is disgusting. There you go – a little education.”
Gline — perhaps I am being a bit presumptuous, but I’m old enough to see the shift from a rural to urban-based population in this country and greater intolerance towards sports hunting and fishing. I guess I’m ambivalent towards trapping because I grew up on a farm and we slaughtered our own meat (chicken, beef, etc.) and while we practiced good animal husbandry, we didn’t get overly choked up when it was time nor did you get any thrills out of it. When I trapped as a youth, it wasn’t done with malice — it was just a job to do in order to earn money back in the day. I never trophy hunted, either…we shot deer for venison, albeit we did admire a nice rack if one of us was lucky enough to get one.
Maybe a person has a different perspective growing up 30-40 years ago in a rural setting where you had to depend upon the land and some of the unpleasantries that went along with it.
Regarding me having a voice — it’s not quite the same as PETA’s Hollywood lineup, is it?
I think you are being presumptuous again Bob, about thinking you know how old I am and where I grew up. Not everyone that disagrees with you about trapping is from the big city. You have some experience behind you, but, so do I. I spent my childhood running the woods in barefeet catching snakes, toads, salamanders, you name it. I didn’t kill them for fun or food though, I admired them. I wasn’t lucky enough to grow up on a farm for food, although we did have horses.
I don’t think there is a greater intolerance toward hunting and fishing today. I have many friends that hunt in the fall. I think there is greater intolerance toward poaching, trophy hunting and/or poor sportsmanship for sure, and there should be. Trapping is different than ethical hunting.
I really don’t know how or if you will change your attitude about trapping Bob, but perhaps now is the time to think about the suffering involved with trapping. You could start with how would you feel if you were in a trap. the suffering an animal has to go thru to be eventually clubbed in the head, killed by another predator, die of dehydration/cold, or drown in a trap is not just an unpleasantry. Sure its extra cash in someone’s pocket, but that animal had to suffer quite a bit for that. The is inhumane.
Growing up on a farm I would actually think you have more of an awareness of what it is to be humane. You don’t trap the pigs and let them sit there for days in the cold before dispatching do you?
Gline,
We can go the rounds on this one forever…as I said before, we’ll have to agree to disagree on trapping.
Respectfully,
Bob
Why does your name say Herb, then you sign Bob??? Got a couple of names going there Mr ??
mediator??
The last few days I have been reading blog exchanges between various parties and each contributor has viewpoints that have merit. I like the fact that there is dialog and exchange of ideas. Whereas, I tend to be a moderate or centrist, I do have a partiality to protecting our wildlife, predators included. The only groups that I dislike are those that enjoy killing animals for no purpose or in a cruel, wasteful manner. This is a good website because it brings out different viewpoints of people, for the most part, who are concerned about animals, and preserving our natural environment.
Gline, my name is Bob, too…but that was already being used so I went with “Herb”. Confused yet?
We could call you herb, we could call you herb bob, or bob herb, or just bob!
You forgot Wheaton Bob…
Herb: It is confusing, and leads me to believe perhaps you try to use different alias’ on different blogs… to confuse folks. Why not stick with your original Wheaton Bob then? You don’t need to hide, really.
Makes me think of the Bob and Tom show..
Gline,
I’m not Wheaton Bob. I took the Herb moniker when I saw there was another Bob posting.
If you’d like, I’ll switch to Rob.
I remember bob and tom from over 20 years ago–their indiana days. They were actually funny back then.
i would be for this if ALL dogs were leashed on public lands as well. Nothing more disgusting than droppings on the trails, barking in the woods, driving other animals into hiding. There is something deeply disturbing about this pathological love of dogs. There have been traps in the woods since there was a Montana, but yuppies with dogs are a new phenomenon. This sounds like a dog law designed to subordinate people to their filthy pets.
montana bob, you are perfectly correct. Freakin city dwelling suburbanites feel the need to change a traditional way of life,out west, to fulfill their desire to show that dogs are people too. I say any dog that is more than fifteen feet away from its owner on public land will be assumed to be chasing wild game and therefore needs to be shot on site. Its time to fight back against such stupidity. People from the city need to keep their nose out of our business in the country.
I am a country boy transplanted into the city (gotta go where the jobs are) and I love my doggies just as much as the next person. But my belief is that a happy dog is one that their owners leave at home. There is nothing more cruel that one can do to their beloved pet than make it walk down a burning hot road or trail without a frequent rest in the shade and drink of cold water. If pet owners really love their pets, they should leave them at home. I also agree that domesticated animals do not belong in the wild unless its a hunting dog but if a rabbit dog turns deer dog that is not good. Wild canid-domestic dog hybrids (which are unstable and should not be cross-bred) are often the result of peole taking fido for a walk in the woods.